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[Fot] New Cars, New Parts

Subject: [Fot] New Cars, New Parts
From: duncan.charlton54 at gmail.com (Duncan Charlton)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 06:47:46 -0500
References: <002701d3baf6$3fe28f90$bfa7aeb0$@klaenv.com> <CY4PR14MB1160BB43D5C8FD1C9EF98B7390D00@CY4PR14MB1160.namprd14.prod.outlook.com> <D88F7BD1-62F4-48B0-909D-AC2D8DD304F2@att.net> <E8D23F06-B788-4520-AAB2-0E6B9124EC22@ponostyle.com> <CY4PR14MB11600B47E1D5CCAE2C02E5C390D70@CY4PR14MB1160.namprd14.prod.outlook.com> <3770D46E-6F0F-4A7D-B538-E22A67F0ADC0@ponostyle.com> <CAGiQU1AsRCjvjaRTW0_fT8G2_OPiF_MatqVH-QLnB9so+j4KhA@mail.gmail.com> <91974D92-7686-4FB5-B906-2181F2BCA1BC@ponostyle.com>
Those of you that have been to Pittsburgh Vintage GP have seen the big crowd of 
spectators there.

Duncan

> On Mar 16, 2018, at 10:09 PM, Bill via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
> 
> I understand there were venues that had lots of spectators, as there are 
> today despite other distractions. Club racing was rarely that. I sat in the 
> stands with about 60,000 of my closest friends at Ascot Park one night in 
> August 1965 when Kenny Roberts demolished everyone. I remember looking over 
> my shoulder at Watts burning. A month or so later I raced the same event and 
> there were five guys and a dog in the stands. 
> 
>> 
>> Just for the record when I was racing my TR-3 at Santa Barbara the field of 
>> cars was over 300 and well past 25,000 spectators each day, lots of college 
>> kids. Pomona not quite as many entries but well over 200 and spectators over 
>> 20, 000 again.  This was the middle and late 50's
>> , Now there are a lot more things to do so the spectators have drifted away 
>> and the cars have worn out and proved to expensive to keep up so they have 
>> diminished, but it was GRAND in its day like a lot of old stuff.
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Never be beaten by equipment.
>> 
>> 
>> Different strokes I guess. I don?t care what the other cars are as long as 
>> I?m having fun. A CRX ruined the aesthetic? How many people were watching 
>> the TR3?s run back in the day. I used to go to Thompson and Limerock to 
>> watch the sports car races. Me and thirty other people. Sepia toned 
>> nostalgia is safe because it doesn?t have to be real. 
>> 
>> I know plenty of snobs who just think anyone who isn?t doing what they do is 
>> wrong.  
>> 
>>> 
>>> Solipsistic?  
>>> 
>>> I would keep vintage racing if I were racing with TR's and MG's etc.  I 
>>> went to a race and finished between a X1/9 and a RX7 and said why am I 
>>> working so hard to keep my Elva running?  Can I race a Dodge Neon or other 
>>> POS?  
>>> 
>>> At the Last VSCDA event there was one Honda CRX in the field.  Were these 
>>> ever raced?  Wait I know they were but NO ONE cared to watch.  The CRX 
>>> ruined the aesthetic of the field.  Please forward my message to the owner 
>>> and tell him to get a real car.  
>>> 
>>> I grew up in the 80's the cars sucked, they still suck.  1000 years shall 
>>> pass and they shall still suck.  I know very few people who long for those 
>>> cars and do not wish to associate with them.  Old bad wine, is still bad 
>>> wine.
>>> 
>>> Remember a Snob is merely one who appreciates that which is, good.
>>> 
>>> I do appreciate all Triumphs.
>>> 
>>> Cheers, Henry Morrison
>>> Sent from Outlook <http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 10:43 PM
>>> To: Paul Ricco
>>> Cc: Henry A. Morrison; Friends of Triumph
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] New Cars, New Parts
>>>  
>>> I?m trying to figure out what Henry is disagreeing with, or what Paul is 
>>> saying. If you?re leaving vintage racing, why would you care what the rules 
>>> are or what cars the organizations permit? And if vintage racing is dying, 
>>> then how is accepting 80?s cars selling out for the entry fee? If you 
>>> started racing in 86, then the cars from 1950 (probably older than whatever 
>>> you raced) were 36 years old. Cars from 1980 are 38 years old. Does vintage 
>>> mean just those cars that were cool when you were a kid? That?s a bit too 
>>> solipsistic for me. 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Henry,
>>>> 
>>>> Well put.  We have really enjoyed 30 years of vintage racing and club 
>>>> racing.   However, I am seriously considering retiring from Vintage Racing 
>>>> after this season and going back to club racing.  I loved the open spirit 
>>>> of CanAm in the day, but that is not what I got into vintage racing a 
>>>> vintage 60?s era sports car for. 
>>>> 
>>>> We may give our race TR4 a well deserved frame off restoration and it can 
>>>> be preserved as closely to the way it was raced during the late 60?s and 
>>>> 70?s as possible.  It can enjoy some restful retirement time with some of 
>>>> the others that we really care for.  We can focus our energy on prepping 
>>>> another race car for Midwest Council or SCCA Club Racing, and not have to 
>>>> deal with some of the dilemma?s that we are facing with car prep for 
>>>> vintage.  Most club racing organizations have made it very simple.  If the 
>>>> rule book does not say that you can make a specific modification, than you 
>>>> cannot make it.  It makes things a lot simpler.
>>>> 
>>>> Paul   
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I just can't disagree with this statement more.  
>>>>>      1. Vintage racing is dying.  There are way fewer cars and races than 
>>>>> there were in 1986 when I started.
>>>>>      2. The newer cars and drivers scarcely know what a road course is.  
>>>>> Car culture was different after '72 and especially now, just look at the 
>>>>> current Fast and furious movies that sell the current car culture.
>>>>>      3.  how many old TR gearboxes from my personal collection would you 
>>>>> like to have delivered to your place tomorrow? Or buy some of the ones on 
>>>>> ebay for $150, that seems to be the going rate.
>>>>>      4. Clubs that accept cars from the 80's are selling out for the 
>>>>> entry fee, and in doing so driving me away in the process.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Have a great racing season, 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Henry Morrison, Albuquerque, NM
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from Outlook <http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is good to see that other clubs are allowing newer cars into their 
>>>>> races.  VARA has been doing this for several years so that we could 
>>>>> survive, keep the club solvent and the cost of racing reasonable.  The 
>>>>> future of vintage racing is an expansion to cars from the 80?s and 90?s, 
>>>>> they are long past their prime in other venues, cheap and they bring in 
>>>>> new drivers.  They are in fact ?vintage?, like our cars were in the 80? 
>>>>> and 90?s.  More important, these are the guys and gals that lusted for a 
>>>>> certain hot car of the that era and now have older kids and the bucks to 
>>>>> go racing.  Without these folks our sport will pass along with us.
>>>>>  
>>>>> The same is true of parts.  Much of our equipment is worn out and not 
>>>>> maintainable without great cost and effort any longer.  Gear boxes are an 
>>>>> example.  I am down to my last good transmission case for my dog box.  
>>>>> When that goes, or the gear set is toast, I am making the switch to a 
>>>>> modern box (same ratios) that I can maintain.  Like many of us I have 
>>>>> missed races because of transmission failures.  Tony runs a Ford 8? 
>>>>> because he doesn?t want to get hurt, and it is bullet proof for racing, 
>>>>> even has a weight penalty.   A gear box switch is inevitable if we want 
>>>>> to keep our cars on track at an expenditure of time and money that makes 
>>>>> sense.
>>>>>  
>>>>> There are tons of other parts that make engines last longer (and yes they 
>>>>> make more power).  An old TR motor is nothing but half a Chevy Small 
>>>>> Block; those guys spent hundreds of millions developing motor parts that 
>>>>> we can take advantage of.  Same is true of blueprinting techniques, there 
>>>>> are much better ways to build engines than ?back in the day? and if you 
>>>>> read a book and learn how to do it the bloody lump lasts twice as long.  
>>>>> Last time I had my motor out I could have put the coated bearings with 25 
>>>>> races on them back in.  At 36 races I had <5% leak down on the rings and 
>>>>> valves.  Started out building the old school way, with old school parts, 
>>>>> those days are over as I don?t have the time to spend five days in the 
>>>>> shop for every day at the track.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Oil.  There is no such thing as cheap racing oil.  Modern oil is the best 
>>>>> it has ever been and makes the motor last.  I had technical help from 
>>>>> Lake Speed who is the ?man? for Joe Gibbs Driven race oil.  The stuff is 
>>>>> $18 a quart but will last 500+ miles in the car (4-6 race weekends).  
>>>>> Just change the filter after every race and add on quart, total cost 
>>>>> $30.00.  I can run all the way down to 27 wt. (mixing) but just run the 
>>>>> 30 wt. racing oil even at +100 degrees in the desert and the oil pressure 
>>>>> is always spot on.  Tight clearances, light oil and great bearing life, 
>>>>> well worth the cost.
>>>>>  
>>>>> My point in all of this is that ?vintage? racing is changing, both the 
>>>>> cars and the people.  We are going to have to accept and adapt or slowly 
>>>>> see our sport fade.  They willalways be a special place for those cars 
>>>>> with a 50 year race history, prepared exactly like it raced in 1965.   
>>>>> For the rest of the grid, and those of us that don?t have cars with 
>>>>> history, there are going to be cars with certain changes that get us to 
>>>>> the track.  Besides some of us are just SoCal Hot Rodders at heart with a 
>>>>> touch of ?good ole boy? NACAR ingenuity.  Now I need to get back to work 
>>>>> on that 85% scale TR-4 body in aluminum, or possible carbon 
>>>>> fiber???..Everyone have a great 2018 season racing!
>>>>>  
>>>>> Ken
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> 
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