Bill, I've really tried, but I can't help but respond to being called
out in this one.? I know you said it doesn't matter to you, lets just
race - and that's my feeling too.
Not sure how a brake question turned into the annual "what is vintage"
debate - seems late in the season for it this time...
But...? For the record, it's a Ford 8" rear end, not a 9". Remember when
we used to break axles and roll our cars?? I do, very vividly.? The
memory of the pavement whizzing by my left ear as I was sliding on the
drivers door before the car started to barrel roll is indelibly printed
in my memory.? Before the "southwick" axle conversion (which uses Ford
8" rear axle axles by the way), the fix for this was to put a Ford 8" or
a Dana rear axle in the car instead of the stock unit.? It was a SAFETY
change, not a performance improvement.? That's what the prior owner did
to my car - put in a Ford 8" so it wouldn't roll.? It weighs more than a
Triumph axle, and has roughly the same ratios available as a Triumph
unit.? To switch to a Triumph axle would cost enough I'd need to take at
least half a season off of racing, probably a full season.? Afterwards,
my car would be FASTER because it would weigh LESS.? Is the Ford axle
legal?? Probably not, now that the Southwick conversion is accepted by
every vintage organization in the US for safety reasons.? Is it worth
taking a year off of racing to put the "correct" part there?? I say -
no, lets race instead.
A strict reading of the axle housing must be stock rule would also
prohibit the Southwick conversion and we're back to the cars destroying
themselves.? That seems counterproductive to me, but I'm not a purist.? :)
Billet cranks?? Carillo rods?? I don't think the '62 GCR allowed those.?
Certainly not allowed when we ran SCCA in the early 70's. Many of us run
those now because the stock stuff breaks and saws your engine in half.?
However, THOSE DO provide a possible performance advantage over a strict
reading of the rules because we can run higher RPM's semi-reliably.?
Good stock stuff is hard to come by and we do what we have to in order
to keep our awesome VINTAGE Triumph's on the track - I figure that's
most of our justification for those parts.
Uncle jack's car (Dad) was extremely legal, and when we raced each other
our cars were virtually identical in performance.? So if I'm cheating to
be faster I must be doing a bad job of it.
To me, parts substitution that keeps our cars running is in a very gray
area that some consider "cheating" and others consider "just keeping it
running".? The trans replacement falls under that category.? I'm aware
of one vintage organization that's taken a hard line on transmissions -
Bill, yours would be illegal there. And as a result guys running GT-6's
are pretty much screwed.? I don't know why the organization would rather
see a competitor replace a tranny every race weekend rather than have
them out on the track competing.
I'm just glad that I get to do this as often as I can afford, and get to
hang with a bunch of really neat people.
I could write another book on front brakes (the original topic), one on
various engine parts, carburetors, transmissions.? I already wrote the
one on axles (above).
I'd rather folks not be terribly nit-picky about this stuff and just
appreciate the fact that we can muster up enough Triumphs at an event
that the organizers WANT us there and will give us a race to ourselves.
Regards, Tony Drews
On 3/9/2018 8:06 AM, Bill Tobin via Fot wrote:
> Bill, if all the cheaters in vintage were black flagged, half the
> field wouldn't finish! Cheaters is a harsh word; non-compliant sounds
> better.
> I know of guys with mid-50's Corvettes, and one T Bird,?who run big
> disc brakes, not the original drums. One of whom runs a vintage
> organization!!!!!!
> Also, I like Tony but a 9 inch Ford diff in a TR4? All vintage rules
> say the diff housing has to be stock.
> I also like Sam, who's given me a lot of advice over the years, but is
> his car truely vintage legal? Frankly, I don't care.
> This will probably get me blackballed, but....
> I also don't give a hoot what you run or how legal it is or isn't.
> Just go out and have fun.
> I've gotten 1 (one) medal in 11 years of vintage racing; not a very
> successful effort, you might say. (so would I!). But I've had an
> 'effen blast! And met a bunch of great people. And did what I set out
> to do.
> OK, I wrote this last night and thought I'd sleep on it. After reading
> the comment about Formula Libra, I guess other people feel as I do.
> Were all the cars running today raced "back in the day" or were they
> built to go vintage racing today?
> Ever see a tech inspector crawl under your car and check to see if the
> drain plugs were safety wired? Or check brakes or diffs?
> Full disclosure: I run a Celica 5 speed, legal according to the rules.
> Hitachi carbs (the Japs took SU's and improved them).
> I don't like cheaters. I help with the Erie Marathon where 43% or our
> finishers qualified for the Boston Marathon, the goal of every good
> runner. The last couple years we ferreted out 3 cheaters. They will
> never, ever be allowed into the Boston Marathon. That's why I like
> running, kind of a pure sport where technology doesn't help you much.
> OK, end of rant.
> Hang loose. (I'm reading Brian Wilson's book, so I thought a surfing
> term would be ok!)
> Bill
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 08, 2018 9:59 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?
>
> Good for SVRA. If I were the Vintage Grand Poo Pah, I would take a
> note of tire cheaters on the False Grid, and then bring em in with
> a Meat Ball Flag after one lap in the Feature Race.
>
> Bill Dentinger
>
> PS Three sets of tires needed. ?One for qualifying...one for the
> feature race...and a special set for Tech. That latter set can be
> experienced, but must have a minimum tread depth.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 8, 2018, at 2:08 PM, John Styduhar via Fot
>
>> The only item that SVRA regularly checks is tires from my
>> experience.? And they do that at each gridding.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 2:49 PM, Paul Ricco via Fot
>>
>> We have not had issues with stock calipers.? We run Hawk or
>> Carbotech brake pads and good brake fluid.? We do bleed the
>> brakes regularly and all seems to be working good.
>>
>> It would be nice to get the benefit of less unsprung weight
>> on the front suspension by switching to aluminum.? However, I
>> do not know of any vintage organization that really allows it
>> by their rules.? We all know that that do not get enforced on
>> a regular basis.? However, I do think SVRA has made a great
>> effort to get people to use a stock type caliper at their
>> events.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 8, 2018, at 11:26 AM, Chris Marx via Fot
>>>
>>> I?m still using the original brakes the car came with.
>>> I?ve put in some nice brake pads and that is working well
>>> for me.
>>> Cheers
>>> Chris
>>> *Von:*Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net
>>> HOGYE via Fot
>>> *Gesendet:*Donnerstag, 8. M?rz 2018 17:28
>>> *Cc:*Friends of Triumph' Triumph <fot at autox.team.net
>>> *Betreff:*Re: [Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?
>>> Good call, Scott.? The Wilwood calipers are aluminum, but
>>> otherwise look very similar to the the P or PB calipers.
>>> DH
>>>> On March 8, 2018 at 8:21 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com
>>>>
>>>> good to check your club rules first though, if enforced.?
>>>> VRG says you need to use the original equipment, and SVRA says
>>>> Alternate calipers or wheel cylinders must be of the same
>>>> material, design and number of pistons as the original
>>>> component. There must be no increase in the frictional
>>>> surface of the pads or shoes.
>>>> On Mar 8, 2018, at 11:09 AM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot
>>>> The quality of the new calipers is somewhat suspect, but
>>>> seem to work as needed.
>>>> The first pair that I bought from BPNW had a yellow
>>>> (anodized ?) finish with numbers in the castings.? The
>>>> second pair from BPNW 4 years later have a silver finish
>>>> and no numbers in the casting which made me wonder about
>>>> the quality.
>>>> My first set has been on my car from 2013. ?13 race
>>>> weekends a total of 3,800 miles.
>>>> Wilwood makes beautiful replacements now.? They are
>>>> anodized black.? I far as I can tell, they will fit our
>>>> Triumphs, but haven't made a complete comparison. Of course
>>>> the price is higher, but more equivalent to the importance
>>>> of good brakes.
>>>>
>>>> DH
>>>>
>>>>> On March 8, 2018 at 2:54 AM Henry Frye via Fot
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have seen these available for a while now, but fear they
>>>>> are made
>>>>> somewhere we don't want to know from materials I don't
>>>>> want to think
>>>>> about. I'm not brave enough to put one of these on a
>>>>> street car, let
>>>>> alone my race car.
>>>>>
>>>>> Has anybody tried these calipers yet? Any feedback???
>>>>>
>>>>> As long as good cores are available for 16P's, I'm
>>>>> rebuilding OEM
>>>>> calipers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Henry
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2018-03-07 23:24, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, the PB calipers are available new for around $100
>>>>>> each new.
>>>>>> That's pretty inexpensive for such an important part.? I
>>>>>> purchased
>>>>>> another set when I thought I might be having a problem,
>>>>>> but ended up
>>>>>> just changing pads.? I'm glad to have a new pair standing
>>>>>> by.? Then I
>>>>>> can rebuild at my leisure.
>>>>>
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