--===============8206863990706149099==
boundary="----=_Part_69030_1781498383.1436921850278"
------=_Part_69030_1781498383.1436921850278
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I started destroying the transmissions when I went to a solid clutch Not so=
much the diffs. But I cant tell you how many races I ran with third gear =
teeth on the floor.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Ostrowski <jason@multivintage.com>
To: John Hasty <jhasty@mhc-law.com>
Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph <fot@autox.team.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2015 3:30 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6 differential failure
I disagree. For the GT6 race car if you want to go fast that is simply not
true.
Jason Ostrowski=20
Friendly Ghost Racing=20
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 14,
2015, at 3:56 PM, John Hasty <jhasty@mhc-law.com> wrote:
>=20
> Shock loading in
road race conditions is why the guys at SPEC say you should use a clutch di=
sc
with springs
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> On Jul 14, 2015, at 4:19 PM, "Peter
>=20
>
Scott,
> To answer some of your questions.
> Would lower oil temps stops =E2=80=98gear
teeth breaking off=E2=80=99 Short answer NO. However, you should look at th=
e
differential as a complete system.
>=20
> If you had tooth failure It could be due
to a number of things: -
>=20
> 1. Long Term Use/Operation Fatigue Failure
>
> 2. High instantaneous/shock loading Failure
>=20
> 3. Improper
backlash/clearances =E2=80=93 Causing Tooth Failure as a result of incorrec=
t tooth
loading
>=20
> 4. Improper lubrication/type/grade/flow/level/operating
temperature
>=20
> The beauty of synthetic oils is that it allows the system to
run at MUCH lower temperatures (And operate at higher temps of course) as a
direct result of the synthetic oil being able to FLOW/POUR with less resist=
ance.
Just like mixing a cake! The thicker the mix, the higher the work load requ=
ired
to mix, the more friction, the hotter the mixing temps.
>=20
> The other side of
the coin, in general, Synthetic is that is has LESS mechanical dampening fo=
r
high shock loading than traditional mineral based oils for the same grade
product. Even on synthetic engine oils you will see description such as =E2=
=80=98made
for modern/tight clearances=E2=80=99 etc. etc. Reduced operating clearances=
and high oil
shearing applications etc. is synthetics domain.
>=20
> So, when you look at the
system as a whole. YES, it=E2=80=99s important to have the oil in its optim=
um
temperature range. BUT all the other factors are equally important. The oil=
is
not mutually exclusive in the equation.
>=20
> Hope that helps?
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>
>=20
> From: Scott Janzen [mailto:sjanzen@me.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2015
4:44 AM
> To: Peter Vucinic
> Cc: 'Jason Ostrowski'; ''Friends of Triumph'
Triumph'
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6 differential failure
>=20
> so, while I respect
the need proper operating temps, if the failure experienced is not bearing
failure, but simply gear teeth breaking off under load, would lower temps
help?
> I run Redline synthetic.
>=20
> On Jul 13, 2015, at 2:32 PM, Peter Vucinic
wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Get the oil temp down and use full synthetic.
> I did much
testing on my road going TR4 diff. Even a road car, at highway speed cruisi=
ng,
the oil temp is 180-200F.
> With the diff =E2=80=98tucked up=E2=80=99 and limited air flow. You
are starting with a problem before you start!
>=20
>=20
> "You can Make a Small
Fortune From Motor Racing. As long as You Started With A Lage Fortune!"
> Kind
Regards
> Peter Vucinic
> TR4 - TR7 V8 - Spitfire MkII
>
_______________________________________________
>
>=20
>
http://www.fot-racing.com<http://www.fot-racing.com/>
>=20
> Donate:
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums:
http://www.team.net/forums
>=20
>=20
> From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Scott Janzen
> Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2015 12:20 AM
> To: Jason
Ostrowski
> Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6
differential failure
>=20
> thanks, Jason - yes, I was banging through the gears,
and there's now a steep 150' +/- DROP at this track, downhill turn, where I=
was
in second gear at 7,000 RPM, first accelerating, then letting it slow me do=
wn as
I approached the sharp right to the uphill climb. I'm sure that did not do=
the
diff any good.
>=20
> Somehow the idea of putting a Subaru diff in this car does
not feel very "vintage".
>=20
> Question - has anyone checked the oil temp, and
would cooling make a difference? I do run Redline 75-85 gear oil.
>=20
> I will
report back and send carnage photos when I get it out.
>=20
> On Jul 13, 2015, at
10:12 AM, Jason Ostrowski wrote:
>=20
> I agree that it is consumable.
> A change
to something different would seem to lead to a redesign of all the parts th=
at
mate to it and that could turn into a whole new set of other related projec=
ts.
>
Likely a costly and complex endeavor to say the least.
> Knowing you, I assume
you are using a quality oil already as Steve recommends.
> I notice you are
racing faster lately and seem to be doing great with the car.
>=20
> Begin Public
Service announcement to all FoT...
>=20
> That being said, (especially the faster
you go) don't forget to remind yourself regularly about how you need to tre=
at
the drivetrain.
> Perhaps most importantly on this issue is careful driving with
a constant focus to smooth transition between the gears.
> And really important
is super smooth take-offs.
> I'm lucky to have John Reed (best GT6 racer of all
time) at the track with me most of the time.
> He is never afraid to remind me
of this.
> And does so on a regular basis when I'm leaving the grid.
> Even
after all these years of coaching he will still often yell at me through my
helmet prior to taking off.
> something like....
> "Ride that F$#&%ng clutch
baby!!"
> or "Easy take off".
> Wisdom I'm not afraid to admit I need to be
reminded of in a tense moment taking off to hit the track.
> One slip of the
foot or abrupt start is all it takes to do damage to the differential.
> I can
trace most of my differential failures back to sketchy shift transitions or
abrupt starts...
> We all hate to admit that an equipment failure is our own
fault but, speaking for myself, I know it often is.
> This was an FoT Public
Service Announcement...
> Brought to you by Friendly Ghost Racing.
>=20
> Jason
Ostrowski
> Friendly Ghost Racing
> 1969 Triumph GT6+ Racecars
>=20
>=20
> On Sun,
>>
wrote:
> Mine disintegrated in a big way in the last race yesterday at Pitt
Race. Last one did the same thing about 3-4 years ago.
> Should I just consider
this a consumable item, or swap to something stronger? What are other vint=
age
racers doing?
>=20
> Sent from my mobile device
>
_______________________________________________
>
>=20
>
http://www.fot-racing.com<http://www.fot-racing.com/>
>=20
> Donate:
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums:
http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason@multivintage.com
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive:
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty@mhc-law.com
>=20
>=20
>
_______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>=20
>
http://www.fot-racing.com
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason@multivintage.com
>=20
>
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Donate:
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums:
http://www.team.net/forums
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gt6steve@aol.com
=20
------=_Part_69030_1781498383.1436921850278
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'arial'>I started destroying the tr=
ansmissions when I went to a solid clutch Not so much the diffs. But =
I cant tell you how many races I ran with third gear teeth on the floor.<br=
>
<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Jason Ostrowski <jason@multivintage.com><br>
To: John Hasty <jhasty@mhc-law.com><br>
Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph <fot@autox.team.net><br>
Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2015 3:30 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6 differential failure<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_1_9be6541d-45cc-4f8f-87cf-f18e09f2e5fe" style=3D"marg=
in: 0px;font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif;font-size: 12px;col=
or: #000;background-color: #fff;">
<pre style=3D"font-size: 9pt;"><tt>I disagree. For the GT6 race car if you =
want to go fast that is simply not
true.
Jason Ostrowski=20
Friendly Ghost Racing=20
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 14,
2015, at 3:56 PM, John Hasty <<a href=3D"mailto:jhasty@mhc-law.com";>jhas=
ty@mhc-law.com</a>> wrote:
>=20
> Shock loading in
road race conditions is why the guys at SPEC say you should use a clutch di=
sc
with springs
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> On Jul 14, 2015, at 4:19 PM, "Peter
Vucinic" <<a href=3D"mailto:pvucinic@netspace.net.au";>pvucinic@netspace.=
net.au</a><<a href=3D"mailto:pvucinic@netspace.net.au?";>mailto:pvucinic@=
netspace.net.au</a>>> wrote:
>=20
>
Scott,
> To answer some of your questions.
> Would lower oil temps stops =E2=80=98gear
teeth breaking off=E2=80=99 Short answer NO. However, you should look at th=
e
differential as a complete system.
>=20
> If you had tooth failure It could be due
to a number of things: -
>=20
> 1. Long Term Use/Operation Fatigue Failure
>
> 2. High instantaneous/shock loading Failure
>=20
> 3. Improper
backlash/clearances =E2=80=93 Causing Tooth Failure as a result of incorrec=
t tooth
loading
>=20
> 4. Improper lubrication/type/grade/flow/level/operating
temperature
>=20
> The beauty of synthetic oils is that it allows the system to
run at MUCH lower temperatures (And operate at higher temps of course) as a
direct result of the synthetic oil being able to FLOW/POUR with less resist=
ance.
Just like mixing a cake! The thicker the mix, the higher the work load requ=
ired
to mix, the more friction, the hotter the mixing temps.
>=20
> The other side of
the coin, in general, Synthetic is that is has LESS mechanical dampening fo=
r
high shock loading than traditional mineral based oils for the same grade
product. Even on synthetic engine oils you will see description such as =E2=
=80=98made
for modern/tight clearances=E2=80=99 etc. etc. Reduced operating clearances=
and high oil
shearing applications etc. is synthetics domain.
>=20
> So, when you look at the
system as a whole. YES, it=E2=80=99s important to have the oil in its optim=
um
temperature range. BUT all the other factors are equally important. The oil=
is
not mutually exclusive in the equation.
>=20
> Hope that helps?
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>
>=20
> From: Scott Janzen [<a href=3D"mailto:sjanzen@me.com?";>mailto:sjanzen@=
me.com</a>]
> Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2015
4:44 AM
> To: Peter Vucinic
> Cc: 'Jason Ostrowski'; ''Friends of Triumph'
Triumph'
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6 differential failure
>=20
> so, while I respect
the need proper operating temps, if the failure experienced is not bearing
failure, but simply gear teeth breaking off under load, would lower temps
help?
> I run Redline synthetic.
>=20
> On Jul 13, 2015, at 2:32 PM, Peter Vucinic
wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Get the oil temp down and use full synthetic.
> I did much
testing on my road going TR4 diff. Even a road car, at highway speed cruisi=
ng,
the oil temp is 180-200F.
> With the diff =E2=80=98tucked up=E2=80=99 and limited air flow. You
are starting with a problem before you start!
>=20
>=20
> "You can Make a Small
Fortune From Motor Racing. As long as You Started With A Lage Fortune!"
> Kind
Regards
> Peter Vucinic
> TR4 - TR7 V8 - Spitfire MkII
>
_______________________________________________
>
<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a><<a href=3D"=
mailto:fot@autox.team.net?";>mailto:fot@autox.team.net</a>>
>=20
>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com<http://www.fot-racing.com/"; target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com<http://www.fot-racing.com/</a>>
>=20
> Donate:
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html</a>
> Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.team.net/archive</a>
> Forums:
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.ne=
t/forums</a>
>=20
>=20
> From: Fot [<a href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net?";>mailto:fot-b=
ounces@autox.team.net</a>]
On Behalf Of Scott Janzen
> Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2015 12:20 AM
> To: Jason
Ostrowski
> Cc: 'Friends of Triumph' Triumph
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Gt6
differential failure
>=20
> thanks, Jason - yes, I was banging through the gears,
and there's now a steep 150' +/- DROP at this track, downhill turn, where I=
was
in second gear at 7,000 RPM, first accelerating, then letting it slow me do=
wn as
I approached the sharp right to the uphill climb. I'm sure that did not do=
the
diff any good.
>=20
> Somehow the idea of putting a Subaru diff in this car does
not feel very "vintage".
>=20
> Question - has anyone checked the oil temp, and
would cooling make a difference? I do run Redline 75-85 gear oil.
>=20
> I will
report back and send carnage photos when I get it out.
>=20
> On Jul 13, 2015, at
10:12 AM, Jason Ostrowski wrote:
>=20
> I agree that it is consumable.
> A change
to something different would seem to lead to a redesign of all the parts th=
at
mate to it and that could turn into a whole new set of other related projec=
ts.
>
Likely a costly and complex endeavor to say the least.
> Knowing you, I assume
you are using a quality oil already as Steve recommends.
> I notice you are
racing faster lately and seem to be doing great with the car.
>=20
> Begin Public
Service announcement to all FoT...
>=20
> That being said, (especially the faster
you go) don't forget to remind yourself regularly about how you need to tre=
at
the drivetrain.
> Perhaps most importantly on this issue is careful driving with
a constant focus to smooth transition between the gears.
> And really important
is super smooth take-offs.
> I'm lucky to have John Reed (best GT6 racer of all
time) at the track with me most of the time.
> He is never afraid to remind me
of this.
> And does so on a regular basis when I'm leaving the grid.
> Even
after all these years of coaching he will still often yell at me through my
helmet prior to taking off.
> something like....
> "Ride that F$#&%ng clutch
baby!!"
> or "Easy take off".
> Wisdom I'm not afraid to admit I need to be
reminded of in a tense moment taking off to hit the track.
> One slip of the
foot or abrupt start is all it takes to do damage to the differential.
> I can
trace most of my differential failures back to sketchy shift transitions or
abrupt starts...
> We all hate to admit that an equipment failure is our own
fault but, speaking for myself, I know it often is.
> This was an FoT Public
Service Announcement...
> Brought to you by Friendly Ghost Racing.
>=20
> Jason
Ostrowski
> Friendly Ghost Racing
> 1969 Triumph GT6+ Racecars
>=20
>=20
> On Sun,
Jul 12, 2015 at 7:01 AM, Scott Janzen <<a href=3D"mailto:sjanzen@me.com"=
>sjanzen@me.com</a><<a href=3D"mailto:sjanzen@me.com?";>mailto:sjanzen@me=
.com</a>>>
wrote:
> Mine disintegrated in a big way in the last race yesterday at Pitt
Race. Last one did the same thing about 3-4 years ago.
> Should I just consider
this a consumable item, or swap to something stronger? What are other vint=
age
racers doing?
>=20
> Sent from my mobile device
>
_______________________________________________
>
<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a><<a href=3D"=
mailto:fot@autox.team.net?";>mailto:fot@autox.team.net</a>>
>=20
>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com<http://www.fot-racing.com/"; target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com<http://www.fot-racing.com/</a>>
>=20
> Donate:
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html</a>
> Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.team.net/archive</a>
> Forums:
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.ne=
t/forums</a>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason@multivintage.com=
" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason@multivi=
ntage.com</a>
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>
> _______________________________________________
>
<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a><<a href=3D"=
mailto:fot@autox.team.net?";>mailto:fot@autox.team.net</a>>
>=20
> <a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot=
-racing.com</a>
>
> Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank">=
> Archive:
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.n=
et/archive</a>
> Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums"; target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/forums</a>
>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty@mhc-law.com"; ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhasty@mhc-law.co=
m</a>
>=20
>=20
>
_______________________________________________
> <a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>
>=20
>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-raci=
ng.com</a>
>=20
> Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank">=
>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.team.net/archive</a>
> Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums"; target=3D"_blank">http:=
//www.team.net/forums</a>
>
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" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jason@multivi=
ntage.com</a>
>=20
>
_______________________________________________
<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-raci=
ng.com</a>
Donate:
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.te=
am.net/donate.html</a>
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et=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gt6steve@aol.com</a=
>
</tt></pre>
</div>
<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_1_9be6541d-45cc-4f8f-87cf-f18e09f2e5fe -->
</div>
</font>
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--===============8206863990706149099==
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Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
--===============8206863990706149099==--
|