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Hi Bud,
I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response.
We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable possibility
in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO.
Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try not to
face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It could happen.
We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have already thought this
through and seen the possibilities. They still support our crazy assed
efforts to win. So are we lesser than they? Maybe we're better at
rationalizing...
Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could happen to
us while our wives know full well what is at stake.
So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most won't. We are
a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll just leave homage to our
brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve
In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
budscars@comcast.net writes:
Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've
kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage
Racing...and
have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous
emails......
The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win!
Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's
REALLY the way it is.!.....
Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way
To Tell.....
Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very
often..DO NOT RACE.......
Racer Bud..Spitfire #21
In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
budscars@comcast.net writes:
Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out....CAR RACING AND DEATH....I've
kept kinda' Quiet about the subject ..Regarding Deaths in Vintage
Racing...and
have Layed Back and contemplated things as I've read the numerous
emails......
The Essence of Race Driving is to go as fast as we can to win!
Some of us will die doing that.....That's just the way it is....That's
REALLY the way it is.!.....
Vintage...Who the heck knows who's driving over their heads or not?...No Way
To Tell.....
Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the word DANGER creeps into your mind very
often..DO NOT RACE.......
Racer Bud..Spitfire #21
----- Original Message -----
From: _Bill Babcock_ (mailto:Billb@bnj.com)
To: _John Macartney_ (mailto:standardtriumph@btinternet.com)
Cc: _fot@autox.team.net_ (mailto:fot@autox.team.net) ;
_bdischer@blakedischer.com_ (mailto:bdischer@blakedischer.com)
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT
You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not to. Personally, the
only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that have a bar, a
restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case that's the
Arlington
Club, a truly great establishment here in Portland), and the ones like the
FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every
meeting and rants about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have
a quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic.
I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (however modest)
of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars that are
diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the bucket. No
disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but unless these clubs get
a
lot more interesting, and figure out ways to get the self-important twinkies
to shut up, there won't be critical mass of people younger than 60 taking
part.
FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--perish the thought.
On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote:
Andy Mace wrote:
This does raise an interesting possibility, were FoT members so inclined:
perhaps we could become some sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR?
I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like this, essentially
summarised as follows:
1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Triumph (or Standard) and
because of that, there should be room in your local or national club to
accommodate your usage preference.
2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year and current owners are
getting older. This largely explains the diminution of club memberships
3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outlive their enthusiast
custodians and will need to have 'a home'
4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise this - and its my perception
in the UK that clubs don't adequately do this
5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc and custodian base is so
small that clubs as they currently stand will probably not be viable as
heretofore. This begs the question
6. What plans are national clubs making to address that inevitable
eventuality?
7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially 'grow club membership.'
The vast majority of cars that will survive are already known. Barn-Finds will
become ever more infrequent
With regard to point 6, my perception of the evidence as it relates to the
UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at all." Additionally, for as
long as clubs and others continue to provide 'free' technical information on
"How to .....?" projects via the internet, clubs will continue to diminish in
size.
Rant off
Jonmac
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net _http://www.team.net/donate.html_
(http://www.team.net/donate.html)
_http://www.fot-racing.com_ (http://www.fot-racing.com/)
Fot mailing list
_Fot@autox.team.net_ (mailto:Fot@autox.team.net)
_http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot_
(http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot)
Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
_Billb@bnj.com_ (mailto:Billb@bnj.com)
503.936.7660
_www.bnj.com_ (http://www.bnj.com/)
Editor
Ke Nalu e-Magazine
Paddlesurfing's Web Journal
_Bill@kenalu.com_ (mailto:Bill@kenalu.com)
_www.kenalu.com_ (http://www.kenalu.com/)
blog: _www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog_ (http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog)
____________________________________
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
http://www.fot-racing.com
Fot mailing list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
_______________________________________________
Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
http://www.fot-racing.com
Fot mailing list
Fot@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
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-------------------------------1222306575
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3059" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
Arial"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol=
e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Hi Bud,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I assume your diatribe is colored with liquor as is my response.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We all know in the backs of our minds that death is a reasonable=20
possibility in our game. Worse than that, debilitating injury, IMHO.&n=
bsp;=20
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Nonetheless, we endure, do all we can to improve our chances and try no=
t to=20
face it with ourselves or our families. But it is there. It coul=
d=20
happen. We don't want it to happen but it could. Our wives have=20
already thought this through and seen the possibilities. They still=20
support our crazy assed efforts to win. So are we lesser than they?&nb=
sp;=20
Maybe we're better at rationalizing...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Still, we'll all be pulling on the nomex and denying that it could happ=
en=20
to us while our wives know full well what is at stake.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So do we quit racing and take up backgammon? Some will, most=20
won't. We are a kind of warrior and we can't leave that. We'll j=
ust=20
leave homage to our brethren, clash shields and move on...Steve</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,=20
budscars@comcast.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out.=
...CAR=20
RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject=20
..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and=20
contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails......</FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Essence of Race Driving is to go as f=
ast as=20
we can to win!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Some of us will die doing that.....That's=
just=20
the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Vintage...Who the heck knows who's drivin=
g over=20
their heads or not?...No Way To Tell.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the wor=
d DANGER=20
creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Racer Bud..Spitfire #21</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></=
DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 9/24/2008 6:11:18 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,=20
budscars@comcast.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><=
FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Gang....Here It Is.......Straight Out.=
...CAR=20
RACING AND DEATH....I've kept kinda' Quiet about the subject=20
..Regarding Deaths in Vintage Racing...and have Layed Back and=20
contemplated things as I've read the numerous emails......</FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Essence of Race Driving is to go as f=
ast as=20
we can to win!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Some of us will die doing that.....That's=
just=20
the way it is....That's REALLY the way it is.!.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Vintage...Who the heck knows who's drivin=
g over=20
their heads or not?...No Way To Tell.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Racer Bud's Conclusion..I.f the wor=
d DANGER=20
creeps into your mind very often..DO NOT RACE....... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Racer Bud..Spitfire #21</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-L=
EFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>Fr=
om:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmailto:Billb@bnj.com href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Bill Babco=
ck</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dmailto:standardtriumph@btinternet.com=20
href=3D"mailto:standardtriumph@btinternet.com";>John Macartney</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dmailto:fot@autox.t=
eam.net=20
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dmailto:bdischer@blakedischer.com=20
href=3D"mailto:bdischer@blakedischer.com";>bdischer@blakedischer.com</A>=20=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 24, 20=
08=20
5:10 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] VTR & FoT<=
/DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>You wrote the email I thought of writing but decided not=20=
to.=20
Personally, the only clubs I really want to belong to are the ones that=20=
have=20
a bar, a restaurant (good one), a pool table and a library (in my case=20
that's the Arlington Club, a truly great establishment here in=
=20
Portland), and the ones like the FOT, where no twinkie with a claptrap=20
P.O.S. excuse for a LBC gets up at every meeting and rants=20
about parliamentary procedure and whether or not they have a=20
quorum to decide on tuna fish sandwiches for the picnic. =20
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I always thought the VTR existed to document the provenance (howeve=
r=20
modest) of cars. The rest seems kind of ancillary. It's not the cars tha=
t=20
are diminishing, it's the members--if nothing else they are kicking the=20
bucket. No disrespect meant for those that love their clubs, but =20
unless these clubs get a lot more interesting, and figure out ways to ge=
t=20
the self-important twinkies to shut up, there won't be critical mass of=20
people younger than 60 taking part. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>FOT part of VTR (or any other "real" organization)--<B>perish the=20
thought</B>. </DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:40 PM, John Macartney wrote:</DIV><BR=20
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none=
; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING:=20=
normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; webkit-border-hori=
zontal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decora=
tions-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-wid=
th: 0">
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Arial"=20
rightmargin=3D"7" topmargin=3D"7" leftmargin=3D"7" bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"=
=20
bottommargin=3D"7">
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Andy Mace wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D3>This does raise an in=
teresting=20
possibility, were FoT members so inclined: perhaps we could become som=
e=20
sort of "Special Chapter" or "Affiliate" of VTR?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>I take a very 'broad church view' on issues like t=
his,=20
essentially summarised as follows:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>1. It doesn't really matter how you use your Trium=
ph (or=20
Standard) and because of that, there should be room in your local or=20
national club to accommodate your usage preference.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>2. The vehicle parc is getting smaller each year a=
nd=20
current owners are getting older. This largely explains the diminution=
of=20
club memberships</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>3. A surprisingly large number of cars will outliv=
e=20
their enthusiast custodians and will need to have 'a home'</FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>4. Clubs (national or local) need to recognise thi=
s -=20
and its my perception in the UK that clubs don't adequately do=20
this</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>5. There will come a time when the vehicle parc an=
d=20
custodian base is so small that clubs as they currently stand will=20
probably not be viable as heretofore. This begs the question</FONT></D=
IV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>6. What plans are national clubs making to address=
that=20
inevitable eventuality?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>7. No-one can confidently expect to substantially=20=
'grow=20
club membership.' The vast majority of cars that will survive are alre=
ady=20
known. Barn-Finds will become ever more infrequent</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>With regard to point 6, my perception of the evide=
nce as=20
it relates to the UK (and probably elsewhere too?) is "nothing at=20
all." Additionally, for as long as clubs and others continue to=20
provide 'free' technical information on "How to .....?" projects via t=
he=20
internet, clubs will continue to diminish in size.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Rant off</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Jonmac</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>__________________________________________=
_____<BR>Support=20
Team.Net<SPAN class=3DApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A=20
title=3Dhttp://www.team.net/donate.html=20
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>http://www.team.net/donate.ht=
ml</A><BR><BR><A=20
title=3Dhttp://www.fot-racing.com/=20
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rmal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; webkit-border-horizo=
ntal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decorati=
ons-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width=
: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-bre=
ak: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 14px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none;=20=
COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: no=
rmal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; webkit-border-horizo=
ntal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decorati=
ons-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width=
: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-bre=
ak: after-white-space">
<DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(118,15,79)">Bill Babcock</SPAN></DI=
V>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-bre=
ak: after-white-space">
<DIV=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-bre=
ak: after-white-space">
<DIV>Babcock & Jenkins</DIV>
<DIV><A title=3Dmailto:Billb@bnj.com=20
href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>503.936.7660</DIV>
<DIV><A title=3Dhttp://www.bnj.com/=20
href=3D"http://www.bnj.com/";>www.bnj.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=3Dwebkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000>Editor</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000>Ke Nalu=20
e-Magazine</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000><FONT class=3DApple-=
style-span=20
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style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px"><I>Paddlesurfing's Web=20
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<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span color=3D#010000 size=3D3><SPAN=20
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<DIV><A title=3Dmailto:Bill@kenalu.com=20
href=3D"mailto:Bill@kenalu.com";>Bill@kenalu.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><A title=3Dhttp://www.kenalu.com/=20
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></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV>=
<BR></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Support Team.N=
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http://www.team.net/donate.html<BR><BR>http://www.fot-racing.com<BR><BR>=
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