----- Original Message -----
From: "John Lieberman" <jlieberman@sport.rr.com>
To: "Charles Cox" <charles@coastalbay.com>
Cc: "Autox" <autox@autox.team.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: minimum weight requirement
> Charles Cox wrote:
> >
> > Cars should be weighed "as raced with driver" like most any other form of
4
> > wheel motorsport...then problem solved. (not to mention a properly
leveled
> > playing field).
>
> If you're going to do that, then I would suggest that you also change the
rules for Stock and Street Prepared (as well as Street Touring, Street
Modified, and ALL Modified classes) and require THEM to weigh with driver as
well! Weight makes a difference in ANY class. As I see it, the weight rules
are just fine the way they're written now (the RULES - not necessarily the
WEIGHTS!)
>>>If you think the rules are fine the way they are now, why would you suggest
otherwise? The rule being debated here isn't fine if you read it as written
(and not as you interpret it to read). The rules are inconsistent and unclear
in many areas, this is only one. Elsewhere in the rule book it specifies how
the car is to be weighed, with or without driver, here it isn't. As far as
weighing the cars, I was referring to cars that are written with weights and
the method of weighing them. If they are weighed at all, then they should be
weighed with driver as the purpose of weighing a car is to, as much as
possible, level the playing field for the competitors.<<<
>
> If you start weighing WITH driver, you're going to force two-driver (and
three- and four-driver) cars to adjust to a different ballast every time a
different driver gets behind the wheel. That will further delay the
transition for two-driver cars in grid. Plus, you're going to have to weigh
with the appropriate ballast in the car for each driver. That will further
delay the process in impound - especially if you weight EVERY car with EVERY
driver. And WHO's going to police whether the appropriate ballast is used for
each driver in competition or impound?!?!?!?
>>>This is the argument that seems to come up as to why it has been chosen not
to weigh the car with driver. What anyone arguing that point seems to not
understand is that it is the responsibility of the sanctioning organization to
present a level playing field for the competitors, not to do the competitor's
work. No one is forced to do anything to their car by any rule. The rules
(typically) allow you to make changes in order to be more competitive. It is
possible to remedy the difference in weight of two driver cars by adding
ballast, therefore it is up to the competitor to do it or not (ballast it for
the lighter driver and the heavier runs heavy is one other option) and the
event production to figure out how to verify it. Who polices any of the rules?
There are many other forms of motorsport with multiple drivers and they deal
with it fine. Further, it appears the minority of cars are 2 driver cars. Why
should the majority be burdened by the needs of the minority?<<<
> This is grassroots motorsports, for Christ's sake! There's no big prize
money involved here. Why can't we all just play within the rules and go out
and try to beat the pants off the next guy instead of trying to write "I"
class rules?!?!? 8<
>>>Being "grassroots" has nothing to do with properly written rules, nor does
the presence or lack of prize money. How can you play within the rules if
they aren't clear or properly written? That is what causes these types of
debates or argument and can be easily remedied with proper language in the
rule book.<<<
> Autocrossing used to be a whole lot more fun and a whole lot less
complicated than it is now. Don't try to make it any more complicated.
>>>You are right, it can be a whole lot more fun if competitors know what the
rule says by reading it not by someone's interpretation based on their own
agenda. That's all Aaron was inferring...the rule being debated isn't written
clearly (as it is elsewhere in the rule book).<<<
>>>Charles<<<
>
> John (Old Fartz & TLS #37) Lieberman
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