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Roll Mayo Ayer etc

To: ax-digest@autox.team.net
Subject: Roll Mayo Ayer etc
From: RaceMyNeon@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 21:32:14 EDT
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:52:38 -0400
From: "Paul Foster" <pfoster@gdi.net>
Subject: Re: Ayers Roll Hold the Mayo

>>...This was a very fast section where the driver had
to navigate a very tight corner. 

No - a very precise gate and offset. And please remember that not all drivers 
are created equal - we all learn and perform according to God's gifts to us. 
Hopefully, it is by mere seat time alone, and not by a series of chance 
happenings with "perhaps" a bit of youthful indiscretion in one's application 
of tires, parts, or steering input. (Note to Mr. Brockman - please don't take 
that too personally. I just call the shots as I saw them. And to your credit 
- your explanation and calm reaction to the roll was pretty' damn straight up 
and mature, IMHO.) The understanding of a cars physics and reactions of some 
turns or corners require us to call upon skills we just may NOT have, at that 
particular point of time in our lives.

>>Furthermore, the car ended up close
to another car and in the proximity of the timing trailer. 

My car was close to the Tracer (maybe 10 or so car lengths; I was in DS) and 
my house was in the proximity of the timing trailer (40 miles).   And two 
innocent people were murdered in a carjacking in Providence that day. 
Sometimes things happen that we do not want, or like, to happen. But the fact 
remains is that the safety zone worked, the car did NOT hit the van, did NOT 
hit another car, and did NOT fly into the grid. Over 200 of us walked the 
course before hand, and the majority of us knew that was going to be a 
technically demanding course that required all our skills. Josh somewhat 
alluded to that in his post. He was unprepared for it.  I heard of no safety 
issues beforehand, and believe me, there are a few competitors out there that 
would have voiced it should it have played on their mind, AT THE TIME.   A 
car rolled, the stewards reviewed the design, and made a minor change. THE 
SYSTEM WORKS. I am not saying it's perfect. 

>>Now there are lots of people who state that not every condition can be
considered, but this sure sounds like a situation which could have
been avoided. 

I disagree somewhat. The only way to avoid any situation in Solo2 is NOT to 
have a Solo2. Having a full throttle turn aimed at a timing trailer can be 
avoided. I see Josh's roll as a driver error issue, albeit maybe to the 
extreme limit of "testing" the safety procedures.

>> If you are going to have high speed sections they should be
in the back away from such hard obstacles with a great deal of runoff.
And they should give the driver some leeway to recover from mistakes
without having to worry about hitting something or someone. In this
case it didn't appear to be the case.

Paul, I agree w/ you somewhat - however - "great deal of runoff" is a 
misnomer. I'd hate to start asking for a definition of that.  Of late, we 
Americans seem to be reducing ourselves to a series of knee-jerk reactions to 
everything in front of us. Sure I'd love to have a quarter mile around every 
offset for a runoff - but lets "think" realistically and sensibly.  Maybe the 
more pragmatic answer you search for is to require drivers in National events 
to have x number of events under their belts, or with regional or Evolution 
schools, or ban Tracers, or Hoosiers?  Heck, I don't have the answer you want 
us to have. Point is, some driving situations one encounters may simply be 
made better by NOT trying to recover. I think if Josh had not tried to 
re-correct after his first correction, he may have simple looped to a clean 
stop. (Armchair quarterback of the day, but I did see it.)

>>And I simply do not buy the bad shocks theory. That is no excuse,
particularly with only 60K miles on a stock car. 

Gee, I once had wishy ones at 30k on my Trans Am....but it is NO excuse for 
keeping them on. Yes, he should have had reliable parts.

>>It sounds more like the car was going too fast for the driver to properly 
react in a safe
manner. 

Nope - the "driver" was driving the car going too fast for him to 
react....see Mr. Brockmans post again.

>>This sport is all about relative newcomers strapping on a set
of sticky tires to their stock daily driver and having fun without the
immediate concern of trashing their car. I really hate to see that
change because I believe it is the greatest thing about autocrossing.

I agree somewhat (can we agree to disagree on others?)  I think our regions 
drivers (past novice stage) are pretty good at trying to instill a sense of 
respect and responsibility for the car AND the sport into the newcomers. My 
Novice Co-chair and I talk with many newcomers. Not all want to listen, not 
all fully understand. We are available to all, but there is an onus of 
responsibility on the newbies too.  Yes, some novices want to learn, some 
want to just "race."   And some newcomers will take longer to develop the 
good skills to make them "instinctive."  But we try to be as reachable for 
any help as humanly (and still allow car prep time for ourselves) as 
possible.  Team.net is great, but do you know the email addresses of your 
regional chiefs?  If not, maybe it's time to check out your regions website 
and start a discussion with those who "work behind the scene."

>>This is not a professional sport where incidents can be shrugged off.
This is a sport where there should never be an injury. This is a sport
where there should never be a rollover of a stock car owned by a
relatively poor student. ....

I totally agree, so I take it you are going to get your safety stewards 
license to help us out....
Paul, my apologies to you if this all seems a bit harsh, but I like this 
sport. That's why I chose to devote my time and give some of it back. I try 
to use my mind, NOT my emotions, to solve problems.   

Eddie Savage
#91 DS
1998 Plymouth Neon ACR sedan
2000 NER/SCCA Novice Committee Co-Chair
1999 NER/SCCA Class Champion

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