> No personal interest in the matter, nothing to gain, yadda yadda,
> just think there might be some other ways to lighten the front,
> even the whole car.
I appreciate it. I've already started planning my worst case scenario (the
M3 stays in ESP) and seeing what radical (and expensive) things I can
do to get my car's weight down.
> > JW: I thought you could get this back through spring rate changes,
> > weight jacking, tuning sway bars, shocks, panhard rods,etc
> >
> > DS: Sure... you would have to lift your front end about 40 inches to
> > get the weight transfer right! (Joke intended ;-)
> >
>
> I thought you'd raise the *rear* (40"?!?;) to get weight on the rear
> wheels/off the front. If Dave was raising the front, eek, I've
> tried that, push push push.....
I've never done this, but my napkin paper physics<<s> seems to me that
by raising the front of the car, more front weight is transferred to the
rear. I don't know about the 40" part.. heck, at this point I'm so
desparate that I'm going to try gutting my car as much as is legal and
then play with suspension/tires/driving technique to see where that gets
me (probably no where).
> What about a rollbar(that just happens to use really SAFE tubing
> in the back...)?
<color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>I had a Solo I rollbar in my car, plus a
lightweight towing hitch and rear
seats and a full tank of gas. My car was 56/44. When I took all that off, I
was 57/43. I'd have to add 380 lbs to my car in the rear to get 50/50
and at over 3900 lbs, who would want to drive it?<<s>
> maybe nuke the stock fans in favor of
</color>> a light electric(have *no* idea what's in there, maybe not much
> weight, but I got 5# off the front of my FSP Rabbit that way - every
> little bit counts....and we *are* talking about nationally competitive
> cars). What's the front swaybar weigh? Probably a good bit; could
> a tubular "Nascar" style bar take some weight out of the front?
<color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>I like that idea.
> What </color>about the fuel injection? Taking the stock injection out of
>the
> VW in favor of carbs took about 15 pounds out of the front;
<color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>Too much momentum in the racing industry
for EFI to go backwards. Or
I'm just a confirmed computer bigot.
</color>> Sure, it is expensive.....it is SP, afterall.
<color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>Not counting thrown out parts because of
brakeage or failed R&D
attempts, I've got well over 55K into this car. The R&D part (which is
necessary since only a couple of people have tried these cars seriously
at the national level), adds another 15K. How high do I have to go?
Overall it will be pretty expensive (I'm guessing 10K including ideas that
didn't work), but perhaps I could get my convertible down to 3100 (I
know I should have a coupe, but I'm too far down the road on this one...
though I have wondered about creative but legal use of
backdating/updating to cancel out some or all of that 140 lbs). But I'll
getting it low weight AND balanced could be impossible. And then I'm
still dealing with McPherson struts up front and a live axle in the back
(vs the BMW's double wishbone suspension front and rear).
> ESP seems like a fun class.
Yes it is. Especially if they keep it a ponycar class. In the US, there's
no bigger rivalry on the streets, at drag races, in road racing, autocross,
etc then between the Camaros, Firebirds and Mustangs. The SEB's
decision threatens this rivalry in autocross (as you look beyond ESP,
you'll see how drastically reduced ESP attendence affects FS and CP
in the long term).
> How much power does a .040" </color>over 350 make?
<color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>Marcus Meredith has gone the 351 route.
It's a heavy iron block vs my
lightweight 281 (+.030 overbored) aluminum engine. I get 315 HP/305
Torque vs his 300HP/370 Torque. I believe further power could come
from my intake system and exhaust (though I've already spent quite a
bit there) and getting my chips tuned on the dyno rather than tuned
remotely can get me pretty close to Marcus torque (with a more than
his or Shotz's HP), but given how rare I get to be on WOT, I'm not sure
that matters. Actually I think I'll have more useful power at partial throttle
by running a complete air/fuel management system. When I get the
weight thing resolved, and some more suspension tweaking, then I'll
consider spending more money chasing power.
> Is there much weight to be saved in the clutch?
Dave had McLeod Aluminum Flywheel, with Smaller Diameter Clutch
and Pressure plate.
> Brake booster? Those heavy in Fbodies? Are </color>they 100% necessary?
<color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>I don't know. We didn't talk about that.
I'll put it on the list.
> Big cars, one might not be able to get away
</color>> without one, but you can use any master cylinder; forget if you can
> change the booster, too.
<color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>I know Dave fiddled with his brake bias,
but not being a brake person, I
don't know if that has anything to do with the parts you're talking about.
> Is the oilpan heavy?
Didn't ask. (Though mine is a Canton pan since I've had too many low
oil-pressure situations blowing up engines... I'm not going to budge on
that item.. and if anything I'll add more weight putting in more oil
protection systems).
> How about the </color>pullies on the crankshaft?
<color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>He couldn't change his legally. He had
changed it, then realized that
type wasn't allowed, and put the original back.
> How light is the stock starter? I've s
</color>> seen some silly starters for smallblocks; little tiny aluminium
things.
> They *should* be lighter, I'd guess.
<color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>He said his was light.
</color>> I'll not pass judgement on the which is better; I've only ridden
> in good ESP cars(M3 and Camaro). They both seem pretty fast to
> me, but geez, Fbodies have _torque_.
<color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>That's interesting. And the Camaro handled
in the same league as the
BMW? Whose Camaro was it?
</color>> Interesting conversation, let's just say I'm not convinced the M3
> is really the overdog some are making it out to be. The "T"
> factor is pretty formidable; seems like most things
> Bob & Patty drive go pretty fast, to put it mildly. Are there
> any other well prepared M3s out there doing as well?
Look at the California ProSolo and NT results. If you don't have a clue
who these M3 drivers are that are doing so well, well, then you're on the
right track as to why the M3 shouldn't be in
ESP.<color><param>0000,0000,0000</param>
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