Richard,
Look at all stock cars, they either come with a front bar only or the
front bar is larger than the rear. I believe the thinking is that if a
driver gets in trouble it is better for them to hit an object with the
front of the car. The motor offers a little more protection and now the
designers put a lot of effort into frontal crash protection for the
passengers. I agree that understeer is bad but oversteer is worse for
the average driver because it usually results in an uncontrollable spin.
I personally set up my cars for neutral so that I can change steering
characteristics by weight transfer through gas and brake inputs. They
have been designing cars with understeer every sense they started to
understand such vehicle dynamics as weight distribution, slip angles,
center of gravity, roll center, lateral acceleration and on and on. (Way
before I was born). If you don't believe Triumph designed their cars
this way just look under a stock car per the first sentence. They did do
a better job of going towards neutral handling through weight
distribution though. I don't know about 3s and 4s but I'd be willing to
bet they are the same way. The only exception I have ever seen was ten
or so years ago when there was a rash of pro ballplayers getting killed
in rear engine Porsches because of oversteering. I believe I read that
Porsche quickly changed the sway bars to where the cars were back to
understeering.
Man! I really didn't want to write a book this morning!
Mike Munson
Snellville,Ga.
70-6 racecar
73-6
80-8
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Seaton [mailto:rsh17@msn.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 10:15 PM
To: Mike Munson; 'Jim Swarthout'; Web_disscusion List
Subject: Re: oversteer, understeer, neutral steer...thoughts, theories,
comments
Mike,
I can't imagine that the factory would "design" the car to understeer.
To me this seems more dangerous than the oversteer. I'm not that great
of a driver, typical to average, but the understeer is an awful thing.
The front goes where it wants, usually plowing straight through a
corner. I realize that most of the cars now days are front wheel drives
(cheaper to make), but I'm not sure how they handle. I assume most do
understeer since most of the weight is up front, but I've never looked
into this or driven many front wheel drives.
I'm pretty sure Triumph didn't design this into their cars, probably
just worked out that way. Such a heavy and long front end with the 6 in
place. Are the TR3-4's like this?
Just my thoughts on this though,
Richard Seton
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Munson
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 8:57 PM
To: 'Jim Swarthout'; 6pack@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: oversteer, understeer, neutral steer...thoughts, theories,
comments
Jim,
See if you can find the book "How to make your car handle" by Fred Puhn
sold by HP Books. There are so many ways of doing it and even saying it
that I wouldn't know where to begin. Basically there was nothing in the
market to meet my needs so I had to design my own system using NASCAR
style bars. My system was in a Grassroots Motorsports article featuring
a TR6 several years ago.
All cars come from the factory to understeer (front slide first) because
the designers know that the average guy or gal doesn't know what to do
with an oversteering (rear slides first) car.
Mike Munson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-6pack@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-6pack@autox.team.net] On
Behalf Of Jim Swarthout
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 9:22 PM
To: 6pack@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: oversteer, understeer, neutral steer...thoughts, theories,
comments
To the list,
What happens to your TR-6 when you "put it" into a corner? What happens
at the threshold when the tires begin to slide? Does it over-steer,
under-steer, or is it neutral...how do "you" know how to set-up your
suspension?
Jim Swarthout
|